Clearing the air

Let me put a disclaimer on here first: I am aware that this is likely going to be a controversial post. I had decided to wait until after the long July 4th weekend, in order to not add any more fuel to the fire. Everybody in the US was probably looking forward to a weekend of celebration with their loved ones, instead of having to deal with even more hassle after what has certainly been a very stressful number of weeks and months for the team. Still, there seems to be a lot of pent up frustration on both sides of the forum, so I think it’s best to actively use this opportunity and clear the air, instead of kicking things under the rug.

For context, we’ve had a somewhat heated discussion in the TG chat on July 3rd. People were warned, muted, unmuted, apologies were made, explanations offered, and so forth.

I don’t want to revisit all of the drama of that day, but there are a few points from Adam’s pinned response over in the TG chat (link if you need it: Telegram ) that I needed to address, as these go to the core of what I believe(d) this project to stand for.

I’ve had other people reach out to me, voicing their disappointment and how they feel like some of the things said that day have rubbed them the wrong way. Like I said, I’m not looking to pass blame or point the finger at anyone, even if much of this post is a direct response to Adam’s comment in the TG chat. Instead, this will hopefully serve as the kick-off for a more collaborative forum.

So here it goes.

Shut up and participate

Adam, you mentioned that you want people to be more involved in the DAO, submitting voting proposals and possibly developing additional utility via community-driven side projects. Fair enough.

On the other hand, the Telegram horde is probably the best informed part of the community outside of the core team, but even so, we don’t have much of an idea where things are at or where they are heading.

Case in point, last month, I believe, people were asking the question if the swap is still being developed, if it is still part of (y)our plans at all, and how BAM tokens will be utilized moving forward. That is a lot of confusion for what seemed to be a central part of PP’s plans last year. You offered an abbreviated high-level breakdown answering some of the questions that were posed at the time, which was highly appreciated. But if even the very core of the active community doesn’t have a rough idea of what the current plans are and how things might have pivoted over the last few months, then it is at the very least “challenging” to organize a meaningful community-driven project that actually benefits the token.

So how do you suggest we do that?

Only an idiot would say I’m being passive-aggressive

It’s possible that the intended recipient of the general tone and overall saltiness was a small minority, but the way it was phrased and the context in which it was published make it sound like you’re addressing the community as a whole.

I can understand that being constantly bombarded with requests for updates and having the same questions asked every day can be annoying (and it is to us, too) and even toxic, but frankly, you make it sound as if the community itself is a point of annoyance to you merely by its existence.

Of course we’ll talk about the project within the community. Of course we’ll look forward to dates when there has been an announcement. That doesn’t mean we expect a daily rundown, an apology if things don’t go according to plan, or a closer look at the inner workings of the BAM office. But naturally, we’ll speculate on what’s going on based on the limited information we have and ask for guidance when possible.

Regardless of the question if this was the case here: don’t punish the whole class, just because one or two idiots are screwing around in the back of the room. Penalize the agitators, not the group as a whole. Passive-aggressive language and salty responses to reasonable discussions are not at all conducive to inviting user participation. It stifles activity, instead of encouraging it. And it is one possible reason (although by no means the only one) why activity in the TG chat has been weirdly subdued in recent times.

Investor Second Class - reporting for duty!

This point, more than anything, is crucial to me.

Adam, you make it sound like we are only second-class investors to you. Good enough to provide capital and liquidity for the token, but otherwise supposed to keep quiet and be content. Don’t ask questions, “unless you sink a sizable accredited investment into the company,” but please do participate in the DAO. You were quick to label people as backseat-drivers, if all they did was invest in the token without otherwise contributing. It may not have been your intention, but you do make it seem as if our investment in the token is not good enough for more than the occasional scrap of information, and certainly nowhere near on par with investing the same amount of money in the company.

What does ideal user participation and community activity look like to you? Keeping in mind that as individuals, we have little control over “wenwenwen” spammers and scammers within the community ourselves.

This also goes back to the issue of communicating with the community. Both Adam and Josh have mentioned that Adam has had considerable expenses relating to the migration and audit, which he paid out of his own pocket. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be, to see the same questions in the chat each day, help those that screwed up the process by migrating them manually and covering the added cost yourself - only to go back in the chat and have a “where are my tokens?! I have filled out the form 2 days ago!!!” flung in your face.
That sounds like a mind-boggling stress factor and huge financial burden.

I’m in the TG chat quite a bit, but you and Josh mentioning the personal expense issue was the first I heard of it. Perhaps it had been mentioned before and I just missed it?
But again, how should the community ideally have acted without being properly informed on this? I could have seen reimbursing Adam for the migration expenses as an issue to be put to a DAO vote asap (and it still should be imo) - but for that we need to know about it in the first place!

In any case, returning to the matter at hand, is belittling those that choose to invest in the coin without actively participating in the community really a good move for BAM? Those small investors make up the vast majority - and considering the target group of the app, that number will certainly only grow larger, provided we actually manage to increase the number of holders.

This issue, more than anything, is a potential breaking point for me. If our support, both monetary and as regular community members, is somehow being regarded as inferior to accredited investments into the company, then that means I’m out. Everybody has invested according to their own means (and hopefully not beyond), but if all this does is at best “elevate” us crypto-peasants to the status of subpar investors, then I have made a grave error in judgement in coming here and want no more part in it.

After last Saturday and in response to Adam’s comment, I had made the commitment to be more vocal and proactive in the DAO from here on out. This post is part of that commitment to help shape the DAO in the direction that I want to see us grow. It is made in good faith and not meant to offend or otherwise criticize the team or any individual, including Adam. On the contrary, as I’ve said many times before and I’m sure I’ll keep saying many times in the future: I’m thankful for all the hard work, appreciative of the leadership and dedication, and proud to be part of this community. But if we can’t have an open and constructive discussion about the good as well as the bad, then I don’t think we’ll be around for the next bull market. Though I’ll do my part to make sure we will be.

Adam, you’ve once said your approach is to underpromise and overdeliver - I think everybody is fine with that, clear announcement dates or not.

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Thanks JaPanda - appreciate this post. Exactly the type of “Discourse” we are looking to move to, and very well stated. Not controversial at all in my opinion, and a wholesale example of what we can do here in this forum vs Telegram.

I’ll parse this out and address your comments in a few separate replies as time allows over the next few days.

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May I take it further. Yes I can.

Thank you for raising, these points. Challenges will need to be overcome.

It has become very clear that there are huge ideological differences within the community.

Those who see crypto as a vehicle for personal enrichment, no matter the cost, and collateral damage, and those who see it as an opportunity to help others find a way to control their own future, by having a direct influence.

I believe that what one puts in will be what one gets out.

A strong community can only be made up of strong individuals, who are willing to do what is good for the project.

One thing that needs to happen moving forward is a more critical view on words and statements.

Does using email mean global outreach. Not buying when the price is high, high in which context, anything other than one 1$ is a steal, has anyone thought of communicating this, no. Are there entities within the community who have manipulated the price of the token to where it is, this is a serious question that needs to be reviewed.

Crypto being volatile can no longer be an excuse, people who were attracted by the original idea of the community, joined in to get away from the usual pump and dump circus.

We are the community, we are the projects sum and parts, we are responsible for the projects health.

On a positive note, their is almost no great institution that has grown to be successful that has not gone through some form of civil war, so this conversation is normal and healthy.

Let me be blunt.

When critical of the so-called useless coins, do take into account their social significance, they offer people the opportunity to take their destiny in their own hands, the billion dollar ones are not flukes, there are very influential people behind them.

A misconception that has been noticed, is that people are dumb. No, people are pretty smart, and know that if they do not take their destiny into their own hands the future looks pretty glum.

At one point there was a Pink Panda army, don’t hear about it now. It cannot be to hard to understand that a army not trained and training daily will turn destructive, and even despondent.

As an organization with global aspirations, there will need to be a realization that the community is diverse, and that we have members who come from martial countries where ones word is ones highest store of value, people who will go down happily, as long as the integrity of their word is not broken.

There is obviously a lot of bad actors in crypto, let us simply be different.

11 out of 12, an absurd number, have lost the will to continue the journey, confused and disoriented. Have we failed them or have they failed themselves, though there may never be a clear answer, I have taken the pledge to make sure everyone who is still in it, will be a winner, perhaps everyone should formally make a pledge to carry there sisters and brothers, and not see anyone as a burden but a God given responsibility to help the other, so they might be able to help those around them.

One thing is certain

Nobody said the journey would be easy.

What we put in is what we will get out.

May our energy be converted into abundance, and not despair.

Looking forward to seeing you up along the journey Japanda. :fire:

IDREAMOFPANDA - You definitely are a true :military_helmet:, creating the path yourself proud to join you on this journey.

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Cheers mate, appreciate it!

It’s obviously a very lengthy post and much to go through, so please take all the time you need.

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Thank you for posting this, well worded and thought out. You’ve touched on many points of my own concerns as well.

I couldn’t disagree more about people being smart. Larry David got it right when he said the customer is usually a moron and an ahole. Smart people are a minority. Emotionally intelligent people are even more rare. End of rant.

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Got to give it to you.

Hanging onto the idea by a thread.

:fire:

Reluctantly came in here from TG. This is much more organised and functional. I was attracted to PP as a rookie and was worried recently that I would be left behind with the advent of a DAO and other progressions which I don’t really know about.

Lots of learning to do but excited to sit back and watch on here.

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Reply #1

Investor Second Class - reporting for duty!

This point, more than anything, is crucial to me.

Adam, you make it sound like we are only second-class investors to you. Good enough to provide capital and liquidity for the token, but otherwise supposed to keep quiet and be content. Don’t ask questions, “unless you sink a sizable accredited investment into the company,” but please do participate in the DAO. You were quick to label people as backseat-drivers, if all they did was invest in the token without otherwise contributing. It may not have been your intention, but you do make it seem as if our investment in the token is not good enough for more than the occasional scrap of information, and certainly nowhere near on par with investing the same amount of money in the company.

I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding around “investment” - and being immersed in this space it’s probably good for me to try and help educate, with at least “my understanding” of some fairly complex topics. I tend to try and stay away from this as much as possible just because of the potential regulatory issues involved, so let me say none of this is legal or financial advice and I may be completely wrong. Also, this is from a US Regulatory perspective…

  • A cryptocurrency token, such as Bamboo, is a decentralized (community-based) digital asset on the BNB that exists in a regulatory “grey area”. Why is it still grey? Even though the SEC and other officials have made lots of statements - there haven’t been any rules issued, laws passed, exec orders that actually enact policy, etc.

  • A US Based C-Corp has equity (shares) that are governed by a whole host of laws and regulations. Different types of share categories apply - but in general, if you own shares in a company like PPH you’re an investor - no quotes

An investment contract is generally based on the Howey Test.

Some background
The original PInk Panda token was created and deployed by a developer as part of an original team of 5, of which I agreed to be the “public-facing” team member. In time, I began to have some very strong disagreements with 2 of the team members, namely around the direction of the project as well as my own potential personal liability. Based on some great advice from legal counsel, I decided the best course of action was to incorporate PInk Panda Holdings, Inc. as a startup company, with the general goal of creating an easy-to-use mobile app and supporting building utility around $PINKPANDA, and separate as best as possible from the impossible commitments being made (without my consent) as well as harmful actions by the aforementioned team members (if you want to discuss this in more detail - that’s another thread entirely).

In time, a few things became very clear:

  • $PINKPANDA was never going to make it as a utility token based on its non-standard reflections-based renounced contract. The choice was either to let it “die”, or migrate it. After a lot of discussions with our core team of moderators, admins, legal counsel, and other stakeholders we decided to commit the significant resources needed to migrate to Bamboo.
  • Creating the foundation for a DAO was the best option to continue moving towards decentralization so that when the inevitable regulations do occur, it is in the best position to not only survive regulations but ideally be positioned to thrive whenever we get to the next “cycle”.

Very Important note: I want to be abundantly clear about one thing…I don’t believe I was under any legal or other obligation to migrate to Bamboo, support Bamboo, support the DAO, etc. I/we are doing it for a few simple reasons: belief in the immense power, technology, and community of Web3, I am a community member and have never seen myself as separate from the community, or that the community would somehow ever be any form of “exit liquidity” for myself.

As to exit liquidity - I also believe this is where I have a very strong difference of opinion with (some) members of the community. Let me say this - I do believe that as a community, those seeking exit liquidity compared to 99% of communities out there - we are super blessed with a very low ratio. And at the end of the day, they are entitled to have that opinion, the team and I really just don’t want to entertain thinly-veiled exit liquidity questions anymore.

If we asked 10 attorneys the question “is $BAM (or any crypto) a security, a commodity, or something else?” - we’d get 10 different answers that generally would conclude with “we really don’t know till the government decides”…followed by “and of course, that’s all subject to judicial review”.

Our best bet is to continue to move away from anything that we understand could potentially classify it as a security, focus on building utility, decentralize further and empower the DAO. So my answer is “I don’t know” if someone is considered an investor (based on the Howey Test) or not when it relates to $BAM, all I know is they are a member of our community. It seems to be a common sentiment in crypto that buying a token automatically makes someone an investor…and in very general terms, sure. If you buy gold or banana futures, you’re an investor in gold or banana futures. The differentiator is if you have an investment contract as defined earlier by the Howey test. So:

If a person is an equity shareholder in Pink Panda Holdings, Inc., unequivocally an investor as defined by US regulations
If a person is a $BAM token holder, then they are a token holder. They have the option to participate in the DAO, community, or simply do nothing.

As for my own personal intentions around $BAM, they haven’t changed at all. I fully intend to support the token utility and DAO in any way I can, whether that’s through building utility via the mobile app (still plan this), via integration with VersaPay (still plan this), or other utility via the DAO, NFTs, or whatever comes down the chute as this space evolves. I’ve always taken a very long-term, cyclical perspective on this and that isn’t going to change. I think we’ve now seen endless examples of unfettered greed and hype in this space - from Do Kown and Terra, to the seemingly endless torrent of rugs and scams at every level.

Hope this helps, happy to clarify, and if it isn’t clear I value this community tremendously and enjoy the vast majority of the interactions. I think we are part of something special and I apologize to anyone that felt slighted through this - it certainly wasn’t my intention.

Enough wall of text for now. Will address other Q’s and concerns until I’ve hit them all :slight_smile: And - I love this long-form forum approach compared to TG.

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Thanks for taking the time to reply to his question in such detail. This was very informative. I enjoy the new format.

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Thank you for the time and effort, greatly appreciated.

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Having just had my first birthday as a crypto holder, I always appreciate reading your posts. Thank you.

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I can’t believe what I am reading. This post is horrendous.

In summary…You’re lucky I let you migrate. I could have just let PinkPanda fail. I had no legal obligation.

I’m shocked. And people are liking the post. Some absolute sycophants in that thread.

So it’s very clear. Pinkpanda is a failed project.

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You’re welcome to interpret my motivations however you like. However, this forum is for civil discourse, so calling other members “sycophants” is the exact reason why we left Telegram, and disrespect won’t be tolerated in future posts.

You’re also welcome to interpret success or failure any way you want, and yet we’re still working.

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A reminder:

Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree

You may wish to respond by disagreeing. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:

  • Name-calling
  • Ad hominem attacks
  • Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
  • Knee-jėrk contradiction

Instead, provide thoughtful insights that improve the conversation.

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I completely disagree with you. Adam has been honest since day one. He could have done many things that would be horrendous, but he didn’t. I have held many different coins, tokens, and stocks. I have been lied to, rug pulled, and left in the dark. This project is the one I have trusted the most. I realize they have done a lot of work and have a lot more to do. I am in it for the long haul and I am excited for the future.

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Thank you for putting that out there.

Clear and lucid.

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Apologies for my somewhat late response. I’m sure many of you have heard the news out of Japan yesterday - it has been a tumultuous two days to say the least. Let’s all remember that great minds can disagree on the details, but still work together for the good of the whole and stay civil.

Agreed that investing in a crypto-token and a regulated corporation are not on equal footing right now, but I think we’re largely arguing semantics. Distinguishing between token holders ($BAM) and investors (PPH, Inc.) for future use sounds reasonable. However, as you have pointed out things may change very quickly once some of the legal ambiguity surrounding the crypto space gets cleaned up. With a legal framework and regulation in place (as for example proposed in the Lummis-Gillibrand Bill), most altcoins would be considered securities practically overnight.

But I think we’re getting a bit sidetracked from the real issue here. You’ve mentioned that you feel like a vocal minority of the community is trying to micromanage the company or being backseat-drivers, whereas many of us regular community members feel left out of the loop. I don’t think the intention of the general community was to add to the overall pressure or micromanage the company, but rather a genuine desire to know more about what “we”/the company are working on and where we’re at.
My point is, that keeping the community updated on the progress and involved in the process, even when plans change, is very much in the company’s own interest. The way things are right now, I wouldn’t be able to explain to a friend what the project’s main development focus is, what to expect over the next year or give them a reason to invest, even if they asked me. The North Dock has made a great post about this very issue (see: General Discussion / “What is the point / utility of BAM going to be”).
I get the impulse of wanting to positively shock and awe the (crypto-)community with a polished and amazing product, but what good is the best product if the core community feels left behind and abandons the project along the way?

That said, for all my criticism let’s also keep in mind that actions oftentimes speak louder than words. While Adam has mentioned that he feels he was under no legal obligation to migrate the token from PinkPanda to BAM, he and the rest of the team did decide to allocate the necessary resources and manpower to migrate - even going beyond that by manually migrating those that had missed the migration after the window had closed!

Yes, communication has been less than perfect and yes, I believe we need to have more discussions about utility and the roles of the DAO in relation to the company, but I think Adam has also proven over the past year that he and PPH/B.A.M. are usually willing to engage with the community and are not about to fleece the majority of holders for their own short-term gain.

Hope this makes sense.

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JaPanda

Thank you for putting in the effort.

I think it would be impossible for any holder of Bamboo, to not be wiser than when they first bought into the project/movement.

If anyone has not figured out by now the importance of having to learn to read in between the lines, and having to independently deduce, its being laid out here. Even if it’s news for one person, its worth it.

The upper echelons are navigating waters, some, starting with myself, probably will never understand. If it’s in the interest of the longevity and health of the project, I can live with Bamboo playing it’s cards tight to its chest.

At the same time, I hope people get the awnsers to the questions raised, while also trying to come to independent conclusions by filling in the blanks themselves.

The project seems to be following a natural path, and there are certain hurdles that have to be overcome as a community, and some individualy.

I am absolutely certain the upper echelons know what they are doing.

There is only so much one can do though, as attested by the 11000 who just disappeared into oblivion.

I hope I have continued where you left off, and that the community can find the inner tools to take it further.

Be well

Just for clarification sake, I have made a huge bow around the details aspect, and simply tried to carry your spirit forward.

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@JaPanda really sad to hear about the situation in Japan. It’s unfortunate being here in the US (and in Chicago) - I’m a bit numb to gun violence.

Recent events here in the US (Highland Park - literally minutes away from where I grocery shop at times) - and Japan - those stung. Highland Park is one of the wealthiest suburbs in the US, Michael Jordan lived there, etc. Japan as you know has incredibly low rates of gun violence…so to see these events unfold so close to each other…well it really touches everyone in society, doesn’t it? From the poorest to the most privileged - we live in a time where if someone really wants to harm someone else, it seems there isn’t much that we can do about it.

To your point - regardless of the topic - if we can remain civil (not always easy) - we can at least make a tiny little difference in the spheres we can influence.

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